There is a reason its been used for thousands of years, because it works!
People that say it doesn't work are liberal whack jobs that want to give terrorists milk %26amp; cookies %26amp; people with a political axe to grind.How can you say torture doesn't work?
Experts say torture doesn't work because the person being tortured will say ANYTHING to get the torture to stop.How can you say torture doesn't work?
Sure, you could get information, but it wouldn't be the truth.
Why aren't you over there fighting the terroists today if you're such a bad@ss?
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If I caught you in a lie during our session you would regret it big time %26amp; you wouldnt do it again...
Of course this is just talk %26amp; debate here %26amp; not a threat in any way.
Peace
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we were taught to lie.
because people confess to things they didn't do when forced. did burning witches work? throw them in the river. if the float they're guilty if they since they are innocent and dead.
You would say anything, that's why it's unreliable.
people will tell you what you want to hear to get it to stop
and then there are stubborn people like me who, the more pain you cause me, THE LESS LIKELY I AM TO EVER TELL YOU ANYTHING USEFUL, YOU MAGGOT
sorry, got carried away
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_usa_securi鈥?/a>
here's one reason
I remember when i was in juvie, my room mate had a guitar and he got a weekend at home leave. He said i could use his guitar while he was gone but i never did. Some other kid must have come in and used it and broke a string. Which is easy enough to fix on a guitar. Anyway he came back and was mad. I was like i never touched and he beat the crap out of me. An older boy who was tougher than me to start with. So eventually i was like alright fine i did it. And he beat me some more for breaking his guitar now.
I think this is typical actions of republican types who have always abused me, bullied me and been unfair. I see you treat foriegners that same way with your undercover racist bs. You can't hide it from me. I know you too well. I've lived here my whole life and been nothing but abused by cops, red necks and fundies. You say your not mad at me you don't hate liberals. Well we hate you, because you've wronged us. Because you're an a hole. You can lie to everyone else but you can't lie to yourself. or can you.
my father was tortured in the military and it brought out latent schizophrenia. I've never met him but talked to him on the phone once when i was 16 they have him in one of those hide away the embarassment hospitals in alaska where they keep them doped up on thorazine and locked away in a little room where the nurses beat and murder them in your wonderful VA hospitals.
If you know any military people who are missing, MIA, POW. Before sending Rambo into the jungles of vietnam go have a look in Alaska, that's where they're kept.
I'm not.....Generals, Former CIA operatives, and Intelligence experts are saying it.
Because there is considerable empircal evidence that when people are tortured, they come to hate their captors all the more, and therefore clam up.
Besides, if you focus only on the effectiveness of torture, you lose sight of the real problem: effective or not, it's immoral.
Bank robbery can be a highly effective money-making strategy. That doesn't make bank robbery the moral thing to do.
John McCain even said torture doesn't work. Instead of getting reliable, credible information, the one being tortured just tell the interrogators what they want to hear so that they will stop torturing them.
And besides, even if it WERE effective, it is immoral and goes against everything that the USA is supposed to stand for.
Talking and telling you what you want to here. Big difference. This has been proven over and over again.
A tortured person will tell you ANYTHING...the point of torture is to get facts, not ANYTHING...DUH. (If I was tearing your fingermails off and asked you to confess to a murder you didn't commit, would you confess? If not, I can try waterboarding until you do...that doesn't mean that you actually committed the crime, now does it?) Most people who tortured over those ';thousands of years'; were people who enjoyed torturing others...for no other reason than to torture them...DUH!
If someone were ripping my fingernails off I'd tell them exactly what they wanted to hear in order to make them stop....even if what I was telling them was a lie.
Well, obviously since we have allowed the Taliban to re-control most of Afghanistan, none of our techniques, including torture, have been successful
War Crimes: The Cuban-Vietnam Connection
February 10, 1997 National Alliance of Families
Cuban officials, under diplomatic cover in Hanoi during the Vietnam War, brutally tortured and killed American POWs whom they beat senseless in a research program ';sanctioned by the North Vietnamese.'; Newly declassified secret CIA and Department of Defense (DOD) intelligence documents, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, reveal the extent of Cuba's involvment with American POWs captured in Vietnam.
Former POW, Air Force Lt. Colonel Donald ';Digger'; Odell said that two American POWs in the cell next to him were not released by the Hanoi communists because ';they were too severely tortured by Cuban interrogators...'; ';The Vietnamese didn't want the world to see what they had done to them.';
Department of Defense officials have admitted that POWs ';were told not to talk about ';third-country interrogations'; because it would have ';all kinds of diplomatic ramifications.'; Hence, the torture and murder of American POWs during the Vietnam War was swept under the rug by the U.S. Government.
I do not condone torture but guaranteed a godd person at it almost always get the truth if thats what they are after.
This was done to Our Men for Fun.
Their is a big difference. Also it can be done with little or no damage physically. You all must be children.
American should not use it for sure.
But we can kill the Bast@rds.
So if you DIDN'T do it and someone was ripping your fingernails off, you'd still talk - you'd make it up and say you did it, therefore indicting yourself as an innocent and letting the REAL culprit get away.
Torture is useful for one thing alone - finding someone to blame, who will stand up and take the flack because they have been broken on the wheel. It is pretty much utterly useless in finding the real culprit.
And just what kind of information do you think you are going to get when you torture an individual that does NOT have the information you are seeking?
I would tell them whatever would make them stop.
That doesn't have to be the truth.
The difference between security and tyranny is a tyrant increases the possibility of people being unjustly punished.
You're sick, dude. Torture never works. Yes, people will talk and say anything to stop the torture.
You really need help, and if YA thinks this is out of line, they need some help, too.
It does work. For about 45 minutes. Everything after that is unreliable.
It does work!
And for those of you who say it's immoral and unethical... wouldn't you rather have one evil person suffer in order to save multiple innocent lives? Or would you rather risk multiple innocent lives in order to keep one evil person comfortable?
empirical evidence shows that it does not work.
I would not say that it does not work. It just is unreliable info. After you get to your breaking point you are going to tell who ever is torturing you what ever they want to hear
Torture would work on me. Just the thought of it makes me want to spill my guts.
If it worked, why did we have to waterboard KSM 183 times in a single month?
';A 2005 Justice Department memorandum revealed that the simulated drowning technique was used on Mohammed 183 times in March 2003...';
The real problem comes in when the playing field changes. You can tie up the CIA's hands on torture, ;but unfortunately the enemy will still cut your head off if they capture you. It would be a good thing if everybody played the same game which they don't.
You'll never get an answer to this question out of me, no matter what you do to me. Hey, wait a minute, did I just ... ?
I think we can solve the whole problem rather easily; eliminate the don't ask, don't tell policies, and then form 'special forces' units of those who openly profess their sexual preferences of same-sex leanings. Put them in a room with most terrorists - alone, that is - and they would sing like a bird if promised that someone would get them out of it before something untoward happened.
Don't care whether it works...it is morally reprehensible. if we torture, we are no better than the people we are fighting.
Many say that ';They will tell you anything you want to hear,to stop the Torture';.Even John McCain fell into that trap,perhaps because when Tortured by the Vietnamese,he told them what they ';wanted to hear';.
But what if what you ';want to hear'; is the Truth,and the Prisoner knows beyond a doubt that things will go to the next level if you catch him in a lie?Then he will tell you the truth,or at least most will.That's why the Water-Boarding of a few got us a lot of good information.
It worked in Vietnam as well,despite what McCain says.Many told the Vietnamese a bunch of lies about the American Military,that they then used as Propaganda material.Which was exactly what the Vietnamese wanted,so it worked,didn't it?
AD
Well, I am guessing that neither you nor I have ever been tortured. Nor have we probably ever tortured someone else. So how can either of us say whether it works or not?
I can only think about what I would do if I were tortured for information. If someone was ripping off my fingernails, yeah, I would talk. If I knew the information that my interrogator wanted, I might tell it to him. If I didn't, I might make something up. If I was tortured on false charges, I would be pissed and might want revenge.
Yes, I think that torture works. When applied Jack Bauer style to people who actually know something, I don't condemn it. If a person is tortured and actually gives up information that was needed to avert a major crime, I approve of it. But when an innocent person is tortured, the torturer is guilty of a crime and should be held accountable.
If there were a threat that an interrogator could be convicted of a crime for torturing, he might use some caution when deciding whether to do it. He will be much more careful if his own reputation, freedom and (perhaps) life were on the line. I would approve of a legal system that enforced this caution. I do not believe that our system comes anywhere close to this standard.
As a consequence, I believe that innocent people are tortured. For every guilty person who divulges important information to torture, how many innocent people are turned into enemies by the injustice applied to them?
Well, it depends on the sort of information that one is trying to obtain. If one is trying to extract a confession of some sort, then torture makes the confession unreliable.
However, if one is seeking a different sort of information, then the fact that it may be extracted under torture is less important. For example, it is by now well documented that a number of planned muslim operations against the US were in fact stopped as a direct result of information received from individuals who had been ';waterboarded';. The info is available and more reliable in part because enhanced interrogations are hardly conducted at random and are not conducted as a part of general interrogation policy. In other words, when the interrogator begins, he already knows that the subject is likely to possess information on specific subjects that the interrogator wants to know more about. The interrogations at that level, are not merely fishing expeditions, but are designed to flesh out areas about which the interrogators already know something. The result is that We have gotten extremely valuable information using certain tecniques that European and American liberal dipwads like to call torture.
While it is true that some of our own soldiers are trained to lie in the event of capture and interrogation, when torture is used as a part of general interrogation policy such as was the case with the North Vietnamese, the information received was highly likely to be contaminated. So, the enemy learned to cross reference the information he got, and learned to determine when he was likely being lied to and when not. In that case, the lies that the prisoners told had a value all their own. However, a great deal of effort was put into these interrogations, and overall the enemy got little of value.
The response to this sort of thing by our black ops types was to do things like take three VC prisoners up in a helicopter over the sea. The first guy gets asked a question and refuses to answer, so out the door he went, plummeting a thousand feet or so into the water. Maybe the same happened with the second guy. By the time they got to the third guy, he was usually too terrified not to talk.
Anyway, the answer is that it can work and it can lead to valuable and reliable information, but it has to be used correctly and surgically rather than as a mere tool of interrogation generally.
Not that I really give a damn what happens to muslim enemies, mind you.
Of course it works.
It's just immoral and unethical.
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